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	<title>Comments on: VMWare acquisition of SpringSource: thoughts.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/</link>
	<description>Onward!</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:55:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1462</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1462</guid>
		<description>Si Chen,

There is always a &quot;stickiness&quot; to Open Source communities and that is really what VMWare was after. Through that acquisition, they suddenly &quot;exist&quot; for tens of thousands of Java developers (up from 0). The part I like about this acquisition is that if that had acquired an AS vendor, they would &quot;only&quot; get developers working on that specific product. By acquiring SS, they get a share of WS developers, a share of WL developers, a share of JBoss developers, etc. This is really a cross-cutting share of the Java Enterprise market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Si Chen,</p>
<p>There is always a &#8220;stickiness&#8221; to Open Source communities and that is really what VMWare was after. Through that acquisition, they suddenly &#8220;exist&#8221; for tens of thousands of Java developers (up from 0). The part I like about this acquisition is that if that had acquired an AS vendor, they would &#8220;only&#8221; get developers working on that specific product. By acquiring SS, they get a share of WS developers, a share of WL developers, a share of JBoss developers, etc. This is really a cross-cutting share of the Java Enterprise market.</p>
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		<title>By: Si chen</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1460</link>
		<dc:creator>Si chen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:54:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1460</guid>
		<description>This reminds me of a quote from an old Matt Groening comic book called &quot;Love is Hell&quot;:
&quot;Why buy the loaf when you can get slices for free?&quot;

I think it&#039;s great that VMWare wants to offer &quot;Spring-as-a-Service&quot;, but what was the advantage of buying Springsource to do it?  

As a counterexample, Amazon&#039;s EC2 offers you Linux in the cloud, but they didn&#039;t buy Ubuntu.  They just offered Ubuntu, along with Red Hat, Windows, and any other OS you&#039;d want.

Sorry but did I miss something important here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me of a quote from an old Matt Groening comic book called &#8220;Love is Hell&#8221;:<br />
&#8220;Why buy the loaf when you can get slices for free?&#8221;</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s great that VMWare wants to offer &#8220;Spring-as-a-Service&#8221;, but what was the advantage of buying Springsource to do it?  </p>
<p>As a counterexample, Amazon&#8217;s EC2 offers you Linux in the cloud, but they didn&#8217;t buy Ubuntu.  They just offered Ubuntu, along with Red Hat, Windows, and any other OS you&#8217;d want.</p>
<p>Sorry but did I miss something important here?</p>
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		<title>By: Lars T</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1406</link>
		<dc:creator>Lars T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Nov 2009 07:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1406</guid>
		<description>My First thought was that they will deliver a BEA LiquidVM Server like product: vm   tc Server without any OS. The JavaVM is missing and LiquidVM hasn&#039;t got any updates for years. Maybe they assemble it with a Linux OS and a JavaVM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My First thought was that they will deliver a BEA LiquidVM Server like product: vm   tc Server without any OS. The JavaVM is missing and LiquidVM hasn&#8217;t got any updates for years. Maybe they assemble it with a Linux OS and a JavaVM.</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1329</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 08:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1329</guid>
		<description>Observer,

That is not correct. RHT&#039;s total consideration for JBoss was 350+70m = 420m. As for any retention plan, no public information was ever shared by RHT.

Cheers,

Sacha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Observer,</p>
<p>That is not correct. RHT&#8217;s total consideration for JBoss was 350+70m = 420m. As for any retention plan, no public information was ever shared by RHT.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>Sacha</p>
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		<title>By: Observer</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1328</link>
		<dc:creator>Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 03:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1328</guid>
		<description>Fwiw VMware paid more for spring than redhat did for JBoss by a good margin.  the &quot;apples to apples&quot; would be JBoss 380 vs spring 420 and spring has significant employee retention comp ontop of the 420 to address the execution risk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fwiw VMware paid more for spring than redhat did for JBoss by a good margin.  the &#8220;apples to apples&#8221; would be JBoss 380 vs spring 420 and spring has significant employee retention comp ontop of the 420 to address the execution risk</p>
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		<title>By: Harish Pillay (harishpillay) 's status on Saturday, 15-Aug-09 10:33:04 UTC - Identi.ca</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1313</link>
		<dc:creator>Harish Pillay (harishpillay) 's status on Saturday, 15-Aug-09 10:33:04 UTC - Identi.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Aug 2009 10:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1313</guid>
		<description>[...]  http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  <a href="http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/" rel="nofollow">http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/</a>  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1312</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1312</guid>
		<description>I agree Andrig.

Ubuntu is an interesting one. Problem: they have a non-existant ISV ecosystem. OTOH, they have increasing traction and that could possibly be leveraged by VMW. Truth is that Mr. Shuttleworth-a-lot will never sell just to sell, he already has what he needs in terms of cash, my bet is that he would only sell if he was to find a real opportunity to x10 accelerate his linux-desktop dream. VMW won&#039;t be that white knight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Andrig.</p>
<p>Ubuntu is an interesting one. Problem: they have a non-existant ISV ecosystem. OTOH, they have increasing traction and that could possibly be leveraged by VMW. Truth is that Mr. Shuttleworth-a-lot will never sell just to sell, he already has what he needs in terms of cash, my bet is that he would only sell if he was to find a real opportunity to x10 accelerate his linux-desktop dream. VMW won&#8217;t be that white knight.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrig Miller</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1311</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrig Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 19:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1311</guid>
		<description>Increasingly VMWare has faced pressure as OS vendors such as Red Hat, Sun (now Oracle), and Microsoft have put virtualization into the OS.  With that, I think you are correct, that they have to have an OS story to go along with the middleware.  Customers will eventually not consider virtualization an add-on, and be willing to pay a premium for it, as it will be in every major OS out there.  The only thing that have kept things going to this point, is their management of virtualization is simply better, but that won&#039;t last much longer.  So, if they don&#039;t have an OS of their own, they simply cannot be a major player long-term.

Novell would definitely be the right play for them, but carries a lot of baggage besides the OS, and they haven&#039;t been doing well with the Linux business lately either.

Of course, I really don&#039;t see another option for them in the OS space.  Maybe Ubuntu, but they don&#039;t have any traction at all in the enterprise space today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Increasingly VMWare has faced pressure as OS vendors such as Red Hat, Sun (now Oracle), and Microsoft have put virtualization into the OS.  With that, I think you are correct, that they have to have an OS story to go along with the middleware.  Customers will eventually not consider virtualization an add-on, and be willing to pay a premium for it, as it will be in every major OS out there.  The only thing that have kept things going to this point, is their management of virtualization is simply better, but that won&#8217;t last much longer.  So, if they don&#8217;t have an OS of their own, they simply cannot be a major player long-term.</p>
<p>Novell would definitely be the right play for them, but carries a lot of baggage besides the OS, and they haven&#8217;t been doing well with the Linux business lately either.</p>
<p>Of course, I really don&#8217;t see another option for them in the OS space.  Maybe Ubuntu, but they don&#8217;t have any traction at all in the enterprise space today.</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1310</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1310</guid>
		<description>Buying &quot;egoes&quot; is a risky business...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Buying &#8220;egoes&#8221; is a risky business&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: James Cavalera</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1309</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cavalera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:38:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1309</guid>
		<description>Very insightful post, Sacha. I certainly agree on most part of it. Congrats. 

As for the price tag, remember that VMWare also paid for SpringSource&#039;s egoes (which is the only &quot;asset&quot; this big over there...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very insightful post, Sacha. I certainly agree on most part of it. Congrats. </p>
<p>As for the price tag, remember that VMWare also paid for SpringSource&#8217;s egoes (which is the only &#8220;asset&#8221; this big over there&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1308</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1308</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a read-only access, not a read-write. List me 3 competitors of SpringSource who have Write access to SS&#039;s SVN tree. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a read-only access, not a read-write. List me 3 competitors of SpringSource who have Write access to SS&#8217;s SVN tree. <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Grzegorz</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1307</link>
		<dc:creator>Grzegorz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 07:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1307</guid>
		<description>&quot;I don’t have access to the main SVN&quot;

and what about https://src.springsource.org/svn/spring-framework/trunk/ ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I don’t have access to the main SVN&#8221;</p>
<p>and what about <a href="https://src.springsource.org/svn/spring-framework/trunk/" rel="nofollow">https://src.springsource.org/svn/spring-framework/trunk/</a> ?</p>
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		<title>By: Sacha</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1306</link>
		<dc:creator>Sacha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 06:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1306</guid>
		<description>The lock-in exist today by virtue that you cannot access their CVS/SVN tree and that forking is not an option for many end-users. But that is indeed a relatively soft lock-in constraint.

You could imagine that in the future, stronger lock-in strategies are put in place, such as:
 - the CVS/SVN contributors could decide to not do QA on other application server anymore, except on their own runtimes (&quot;you should really run on DM, it works much better in my experience&quot;).
 - they could also decide to not do the mapping from the Spring framework to other application servers (remember, since I don&#039;t have access to the main SVN, the only way to provide this mapping would be to fork it, possibly rebrand it, etc.)
 - they could also continue to support other application servers for 90% of the framework but only support their own runtime for the remaining 10%, for carefully selected features and/or optimizations, etc.

I am not saying such things will happen, but it is obvious that in the past SpringSource has thought about ways to move away from the ASL in order to increase vendor lock-in and/or make sure OEM pay a royalty on each deployment (move to the GPL). These moves weren&#039;t done &quot;for the good of the community&quot;, but were pure business decisions. Don&#039;t get me wrong, I understand that a company has to make those decisions, especially a startup, but that just means you shouldn&#039;t necessarily consider the things as they are today as what they will be tomorrow.

Cheers,


sacha</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The lock-in exist today by virtue that you cannot access their CVS/SVN tree and that forking is not an option for many end-users. But that is indeed a relatively soft lock-in constraint.</p>
<p>You could imagine that in the future, stronger lock-in strategies are put in place, such as:<br />
 &#8211; the CVS/SVN contributors could decide to not do QA on other application server anymore, except on their own runtimes (&#8220;you should really run on DM, it works much better in my experience&#8221;).<br />
 &#8211; they could also decide to not do the mapping from the Spring framework to other application servers (remember, since I don&#8217;t have access to the main SVN, the only way to provide this mapping would be to fork it, possibly rebrand it, etc.)<br />
 &#8211; they could also continue to support other application servers for 90% of the framework but only support their own runtime for the remaining 10%, for carefully selected features and/or optimizations, etc.</p>
<p>I am not saying such things will happen, but it is obvious that in the past SpringSource has thought about ways to move away from the ASL in order to increase vendor lock-in and/or make sure OEM pay a royalty on each deployment (move to the GPL). These moves weren&#8217;t done &#8220;for the good of the community&#8221;, but were pure business decisions. Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I understand that a company has to make those decisions, especially a startup, but that just means you shouldn&#8217;t necessarily consider the things as they are today as what they will be tomorrow.</p>
<p>Cheers,</p>
<p>sacha</p>
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		<title>By: Pierre-Antoine Grégoire</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1304</link>
		<dc:creator>Pierre-Antoine Grégoire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:15:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1304</guid>
		<description>Very good analysis. Though I don&#039;t really see the lock-in of using Spring libraries, as applications can use them and be deployed in any server of the market. This is of course not the case of the dm server.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good analysis. Though I don&#8217;t really see the lock-in of using Spring libraries, as applications can use them and be deployed in any server of the market. This is of course not the case of the dm server.</p>
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		<title>By: erics</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1303</link>
		<dc:creator>erics</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1303</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the insights, very well thought out. But that is what we expect from you! ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the insights, very well thought out. But that is what we expect from you! <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: VMWare acquisition of SpringSource: thoughts. &#124; Linux Articles</title>
		<link>http://sacha.labourey.com/2009/08/13/vmware-acquisition-of-springsource-thoughts/#comment-1302</link>
		<dc:creator>VMWare acquisition of SpringSource: thoughts. &#124; Linux Articles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sacha.labourey.com/?p=378#comment-1302</guid>
		<description>[...] the original here:  VMWare acquisition of SpringSource: thoughts.   Bookmark It                    Hide Sites    $$(&#039;div.d4251&#039;).each( function(e) { [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the original here:  VMWare acquisition of SpringSource: thoughts.   Bookmark It                    Hide Sites    $$(&#39;div.d4251&#39;).each( function(e) { [...]</p>
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